The following interview was done in 1999 by Mr. Greg for the Seattle-based magazine Voltage. As of 2000, this magazine has ceased to exist. The new endeavour is called Cold Dark Matter, and can, cyber-logically, be found at:

www.colddarkmatter.com

Carl Abrahamsson: Music, Magick, and the Muse

Interview by Mr. Greg

Carl Abrahamsson is an amazing individual. An active, creative man, Carl has been consistently exploring the photographic, written, musical, and magickal arts for well over a decade. Simply put, he is a hard-working Renaissance man. Carl's past projects include founding the band White Stains, publishing the occultural journal The Fenris Wolf, running his own publishing company Looking Glass Press, coordinating Thee Temple of Psychick Youth in Europe, and being a spokesman for the Church of Satan in Scandinavia. Currently Carl is engaged in researching Asatro in Iceland and the magickal practices of Tibetan exiles in India. On top of all this, he is the co-editor of the Ordo Templi Orientis' internal newsletter, The Magical Link, with Hymenaeus Beta, the Caliph of the O.T.O. If there were ever a man who was in the thick of it, it is Carl.

MAGICK

Mr. Greg: How long have you been interested in magick?

CA: I can't really recall any specifically decisive moment, but I guess the development started in my early teens. That's when I started formulating things in an occult terminology. The background, the fertile soil so to speak, was an obstinate and reclusive attitude which helped me gather my thoughts and get to know myself properly.

Mr. Greg: When did you first begin to explore the occult?

CA: Intellectually, in my teens, reading the books I could get my hands on: Crowley, LaVey, Spare, TOPY and loads of others. But it took some rereadings over the years to really grasp the essence according to them. I really don't think that many teenagers "understand" Crowley's "Book of the Law" or Spare's writings. Intellectual integration is not the same as understanding. So I worked my way through the classics several times. Practically I guess I started by joining Thee Temple Ov Psychick Youth in the mid-80's or so. I started to experiment with techniques and suggested rituals and integrated some of them into my life. Which changed radically to the better after this.

Mr. Greg: What groups/facets/schools did you investigate initially?

CA: As mentioned above, TOPY was a staggering doorway to hardcore magick. It was really a crash course, because it did away with a lot of the ceremonial, theatrical symbolism of the more classically inclined esoteric orders and focussed straight away on the essence - charging and releasing creative energy in very distinct directions.

Mr. Greg: Do they still hold interest for you?

CA: TOPY certainly does. I quit being an administrator for Europe in 1991, but I still use the techniques and correspond with some of the folks I used to correspond with. The idea of a magical network and a sharing of information, esoteric or not, has become a very concrete reality through mailing lists, Internet chat groups, websites and rapid and inexpensive communications abilities through electronic mail. For me, this is very much a result of what we were up to in the late 80's. Although our interests were more narrow (magick, art, transcendence, transformation), the modus operandi and the good will we spread through the Universe has certainly helped change culture in the mid- to late 90's.

Mr. Greg: What interested you in magick? Sex, power, money, or . . .

CA: Perhaps, perhaps not... I'm not psychoanalytically inclined, so I don't really care about the deep rooted needs behind the actions. I want self expression, gratification, illumination, love, will and more of everything. Preferably in seemingly contradicting and self-exploding packages of raw satisfaction and hedonistic enjoyment through strict self discipline and massive doses of work...

Mr. Greg: What type of magickal research are you currently engaged in?

CA: I'm branching out into various fields of artistic expression and hence need to learn the different techniques and, more importantly, the associated social requirements and "theatrical" acts. That's one aspect that I would define as actual magical research. On a more spiritual level, I'm redefining my physical needs and my physical body in order to create a stricter self discipline. This involves physical training, meditation, and mantric rituals.

Mr. Greg: What advice do you have for people who are just becoming interested in magick?

CA: Trust your intuition. Try and remember what made you tick as a kid and why you think that was. Don't mistake the symbols for the real thing. It's your manifest will that counts, not how many astral creatures or energies you may or may not have met.

Mr. Greg: What would you suggest they read, who should they consider investigating, etc?

CA: Same thing here: trust your intuition. One shouldn't put down sources that at first may seem ridiculous. Never forget that mistakes make very valuable experiences too.

Mr. Greg: With so many frauds and watered down practices, how can they determine whether or not a "teacher" or path is real or effective?

CA: They can, but probably only after making a few mistakes, and in that realisation building a stronger self image and a clearer self knowledge. Thereby the deep needs one has shine clearer.

Mr. Greg: How do you apply your magickal abilities and understanding on a daily basis?

CA: I'm very content that many years of hard labour, both in terms of work and ritual, have come to a point of fruition. A stage where I feel mature enough to evolve further on my path. This wouldn't have been possible if I hadn't applied the abilities and the understanding I've collected and developed over the years. So the main achievement - if any - is the trust in my process and my path as such. It's not so much technique- or ritual-related, but rather has to do with making statements through various forms of expression that affect change. And have a sense of faith in that what it is I'm doing is right and has an artistic and inspirational value for other individuals too.

Mr. Greg: Toward what ends do you use them?

CA: Inspiration, clearer communication, developing different abilities, manifesting goals and projects, secure sustenance, success on all levels and many, many other things. Everything in my life is connected to magick and its source, so logically magick is a part of everything I do and everything I am.

Mr. Greg: Who are some competent, real magickians, in your opinion?

CA: People who cherish their dreams, nurture their visions, respect the sources and the whole, and make every dream and fantasy a living, breathing reality.

Mr. Greg: What is a real magickian?

CA: People who cherish their dreams, nurture their visions, respect the sources and the whole, and make every dream and fantasy a living, breathing reality.

Mr. Greg: Does the magick you currently practice meet the expectations you had from magick when you first set out on your quest? How so?

CA: I see magick more like a permeating constructive force rather than very concrete things you do, like rituals or different systems of esoteric categorisation. I may be up to different things now than 10 years ago, but for me it's still all the same.

TOPY

Mr. Greg: How did you become involved with TOPY?

CA: At first I was a subscriber of their information and I really liked the early PTV records and TOPY transmissions. I'd also been a TG fan and had seen/felt/perceived magical transmissions coming from the web which is the mind of Genesis P-Orridge, alone or when he's working with others. He's a brilliant occultural engineer, and has a way of catching the zeitgeist, mould and/or improve it and then churn it out in cultural spurts. This I see as Magick more than any form of ritualising or indulging in weird symbolic fantasy worlds. To transform oneself according to one's will and, if one is involved in and interested in culture (like myself), to convey and share the findings in as sincere a way as possible. It's not an "easy" trip, but it's the only trip for me...

Mr. Greg: When was that?

CA: Mid 1980's. I think I became a subscriber in 1984. Then I gradually became more and more involved. First with a Swedish "Access Point" and then as an administrator for the European activities.

Mr. Greg: What did you like about TOPY at the time?

CA: The loose structure. The meritocratic metabolism. The gatherings. The rituals. The results. The communications. The human beings. The overall atmosphere of creativity.

Mr. Greg: What was the most valuable understanding or experience you gained from TOPY?

CA: Difficult to pinpoint. But I would definitely say that my years and experiments within the structure that can be called TOPY taught me the most valuable gift of all: Magick. The non-defined definition of unlimited trust-in-self and the to-the-point omniscient Weltanschauung of unlimited potentialities created a spontaneous set of rituals, mind-sets and techniques that have helped me evolve further into my own Magick.

Mr. Greg: What do you think was TOPY's greatest contribution to the magickal community?

CA: Making a lot of occult information accessible. And I don't specifically mean occult in the classical sense, meaning hocus pocus and weird magicians. But rather occult meaning hidden. Hidden facets of culture and human development were brought out into the light and inspired many people who I think have taken that specific information to new heights. But, on a strictly occult occult level, TOPY contributed with a new and clear understanding and application of the greatest force of all - the sexual force of (pro)creation.

Mr. Greg: What was their greatest weakness at that time?

CA: Basically the same as the strengths. The loose structure and some of the human beings made things a wee bit more ineffecient and chaotic than I'd expected.

LAVEY

Mr. Greg: Were you involved with Dr. LaVey at the same time you were involved with TOPY?

CA: To some extent, yes.

Mr. Greg: What drew you to Dr. LaVey and Satanism?

CA: Well, his pragmatic and, in my opinion, sincere attitude towards life and magick. I've always been obstinate, despised the herd mentality, always identified with the bad guys, always loved reality rather than lofty ideals, always favoured work and change more than idle speculation. I read his Bible and tuned in immediately. When I met him the first time, it was like coming home to one of those rare friends with whom you don't have to talk verbally to connect with.

Mr. Greg: How and when did you first become seriously involved with Satanism?

CA: To answer this one would first have to define "Satanism". Noone defined this better than LaVey, in deed and word. By his definition, I guess I became involved in Satanism in early childhood.

Mr. Greg: When did you first meet Dr. LaVey? What was he like? What was your initial impression of him?

CA: It all began by our releasing White Stains' first 12" single, "Sweet Jayne". It was an ode to Jayne Mansfield and her involvement with the Church of Satan. Gen suggested I should send a copy to LaVey. I expected that he wouldn't like it at all, but I was wrong. Received a very jovial letter back and became a member basically by writing a trashy rock'n'roll song that had a genuine appreciation for two 20th century noir cultural icons: Mansfield and LaVey. This was in 1988. I spent late 1989 in California and hooked up with him and Blanche Barton while in San Francisco. He was one of a kind, a remnant from a distant and spooky era that has probably never existed. His style was immaculate and decidedly his own. Eerie 1940's big city carnival horror movie Emperor Ming righteous bad guy chic. And a living encyclopedia of movies, people and music. I was very impressed from the very first minute.

Mr. Greg: How was he different in private than in public?

CA: I don't know, as I didn't really experience any major "public" doses of him. We were out having dinner at the times I was there. He liked being recognized for sure, but I think he appreciated solitude and isolation more than anything at that specific time of his life.

Mr. Greg: What was the most valuable lesson you learned from Dr. LaVey?

CA: Again, it's difficult to pinpoint one singular thing. Courage and aesthetics. A process of selection. There's power in forgotten things and phenomena. Music is magical not by definition but by vibration. Juxtaposing seemingly diametrical energies means releasing strong energy. The forbidden is more powerful than the allowed. Very important: It's not enough to only change the inner. One has to create an outer world of one's own, a sanctuary based on personal and magical aesthetics, as a generating zone, a psychic cleansing area.

Mr. Greg: What do you believe Dr. LaVey's greatest contribution to the magickal community was?

CA: Being there. He was, as I said, one of a kind. Please show me an extroverted and publicity conscious Magician of the same calibre as him... I know for a fact that the most powerful magicians usually stay in the shadow and that those who for whatever reasons need the attention will become scapegoats in the public rectal eye. He knew this too, but in the early stages he wanted attention so that he could make a living out of being who he was. And that he did manage, quite successfully too. He proved to the world that he had the guts to stand up for his values and his controversial way of life. His books shouldn't be forgotten either. There's more stuff in there than people often care to see. He was a very creative magician and came up with some pretty fanciful and strong homunculii that coming generations can use for their own ends - or beginnings...

Mr. Greg: What do you see as Satanism's weakest point?

CA: Because of the term in itself and its inherent glamour, the cultural and magical essence will, I think, always be confused with the claims of pathological criminals and failures. They usually claim to be "it" and thereby confuse the philosophy (which is tremendously creative and strong) with massmedial distortions that in turn feed new morons with inspiration.

OTO

Mr. Greg: When did you become involved in the OTO?

CA: I took the Minerval degree in 1989, which means that I've been involved for 10 years now.

Mr. Greg: Why did you leave the Church of Satan for the OTO?

CA: I didn't. The membership in COS is for life. To quote the Eagles's song: "You can check out anytime you want but you can never leave... Welcome to the Hotel California..."

Mr. Greg: What do you believe the OTO has to offer the magickal community?

CA: Stability, fraternity, an environment to find out more about Thelema and how one can apply Thelema in one's own life.

Mr. Greg: Do you feel that the OTO is still as viable and powerful as it was under Crowley?

CA: More powerful than ever actually. Crowley only had a handful of people scattered over the globe. I wouldn't say he was a good leader at all. He worked really hard on what he was good at, and for that we're all more than grateful. But the OTO as a structure is just now really coming into its own, and this has to do with the fact that all the degrees are now really worked through. And the OTO publishing efforts these past 10 years have been without comparison. In the Order today, there's a structural basis of genuine human interest and a strong communal will. We have a powerful heritage and I think we're taking really good care of it.

Mr. Greg: What do you think the OTO's greatest strength is? Its weakest link?

CA: The greatest strengths are the fraternal potential, the initiatory degrees, the Sanctuary of the Gnosis and the excellent publishing efforts. Plus many, many other aspects. The weakest link is probably the same as in other orders, fraternities or similar structures: Human mistakes and weaknesses and their sometimes disastrous effects upon the whole. Occult politics are paranoid and terrible, and we do see our share of them, as do many other orders. But at the same time one has to realise that when an order grows stronger and bigger, there will be a natural amount of criticism both from within and without. Too many people seem to quite easily forget about Thelema and the establishment of the aeon - the two really important issues that most people should be able to agree on - and instead allow themselves to get dragged into petty and personal infighting concerning issues of very slight value.

PEOPLE & MUSIC

Mr. Greg: Carl, you've met, photographed, and befriended a number of interesting people in your life (GPO, Gira, LaVey, etc.). How did this come to be? Was it a goal for you from the start or . . .

CA: Who can tell? I love meeting people that have in one way or another inspired me. Or that I sense will inspire me in the present or future. Quite often I've noticed that the demigods of my youth are most often quite mellow folks who sincerely enjoy chatting - or even striking up a friendship. Again, who can tell how these processes work? Once you're inside, for instance inside a cultural sphere, you make new friends and they're friends of friends etc. Circles of resonance upon the surface of creation. Leading to new creations and new cultural life forms. It's wonderful to have friends, period. If they're famous or infamous or not for me isn't that important.

Mr. Greg: Are you intending to return to the music scene anytime soon? Are there any plans for a White Stains reunion or reissue of their material?

CA: I'm returning, yes. I don't know about White Stains. Perhaps it's time for a series of reissues, that could be interesting. But the first new release is by Mellowman. It's a CD called "Outside the centre of myself" and comes with a new magazine I'm producing called "Bult". There will also be the debut CD from Loincloth and possibly one from Pollux Boost too this year. No rest for the wicked, as they say.

Mr. Greg: How did you first meet COIL?

CA: Correspondence, mutual friends, dinner, chatting...

Mr. Greg: How would you describe COIL in a paragraph?

CA: Coil: Allowing energies to flow spirally through personal exorcistic processes of research onto musical matrixes technically, emotionally and artistically conceived by several highly interesting and odd individuals.

Mr. Greg: Any last words, thoughts, or things you'd like to say or I forgot to ask about?

CA: Magick is a blessing. It transcends religion and every other form of communal control, structure, race, creed or genetic design. The force of will is a liberator for the organism and love, the will to unite, is its inherent energy. I know it's such a cliché, but this really sums it up well: "It's all in your mind!" And everything is there in the mind right from the start. So the magical process is not so much a gathering of external, intellectual information as it is a slow but beautiful unveiling of the precious gems already there.

Copyright © Das Romanie Booksellers 1999